Dakkalazy's House Rules - Occupy Trottingham!

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Dakkalazy
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Re: Dakkalazy's House Rules - Occupy Trottingham!

Postby Dakkalazy » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:01 pm

TK Grasp is the only spell in the game which has its own unique casting cost at 15 AP cast to make an attack


Nah. 15 AP is the cost of attacks made with it. The casting cost is not specified, and therefore it is default.
Again, I may interpret the rules in this case in favor of game balance. You are free to interpret them in favor of unicorns.

Like I mentioned before, all the unicorn has to do is lift the target in the air, and clamp their mouth shut.


Well, see, in the rules as written, the only conditions you can technically inflict on the enemy with Advanced Combat Actions are:
Prone (is on the ground, is easier to hit, needs to spend 20 AP to get up)
Choked (takes multiple turns. Opponent may not Break Free out of Telekinetic Choke, but they may disengage by moving out of sight)
Pinned (can't move, but can take whatever actions they want, just at a -30% penalty)

Also, Science is always used in place of unarmed/melee when making attacks for TK Grasp. Since Disarm is an advanced combat maneuver, this would qualify as an attack

[s]Well using Science for magic rolls is stupid anyway[/s]. The point was that the roll for Disarm is tied to the Science/Magic/Melee/Unarmed and not Strength.

Finally, on the matter:
There are no explicitly written rules for lifting someone into the air and completely immobilizing them with your ungodly powerful telekinesis. That's just something you made up because that's how you think the game should work. Which isn't really wrong. It just means that it's going to be up for the DM to interpret the situation and make a ruling based on that. I'm just going to repeat this again:

If the DM rules that Spell_X can do the Incredible_Feats_Of_Strength, then of course it will be overpowered. Because that's pretty much the DM's duty. The game is being ran by an intelligent (at least I hope so) human being who can always use judgment in these situations.

If you think that rules for wrestling the control of an item apply to Telekinetic Grasp, more power to you! That's your prerogative.
If I, as a DM, decide that they don't apply and use the rules for Disarm instead for reasons of game balance, then that's my prerogative.

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TyrannisUmbra
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Re: Dakkalazy's House Rules - Occupy Trottingham!

Postby TyrannisUmbra » Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:24 pm

Dakkalazy wrote:Nah. 15 AP is the cost of attacks made with it. The casting cost is not specified, and therefore it is default.


Attacks are what the spell is for. And these examples are attacks. This would make them fall under the 15AP cost, not a 45AP cost, and not a combined cost.

Dakkalazy wrote:There are no explicitly written rules for lifting someone into the air and completely immobilizing them with your ungodly powerful telekinesis. That's just something you made up because that's how you think the game should work.


You're actually wrong on this. There are specific mentions of telekinesis being able to lift ponies.

Telekinesis Description wrote:A potency of 4 is required to lift an adult pony, 3 for an adult pony with the Small Frame trait, and 2 for a foal.


So long as you meet these requirements, you are allowed to lift a pony. And if they're not on the ground, they're unable to walk.

Sadly, the rules in general are lacking on clarification for grappling, not JUST for telekinetic grappling, but also if say, a griffon grabbed a pegasus by the wings in midair. This is what would be in play for wing binding etc. At the moment, the only thing we know is that there's a default 'Escape' action to get out of being held. Which would be what applies in cases such as these, because there's no more specific case. If they want to move, they have to succeed the Escape action, which requires them to beat your STR. It's the only action we have that relates to being generally grappled in the first place.

I'd also like to point out that I'm interpreting as close to RAW as I can, because we're talking about RAW -- the way the rules describe how the spells work. It's not how I think the game should work, it's how the rules say the game should work based on how they're written. And that's exactly my point. I opened this discussion on TK Grasp by saying that it was overpowered and needed to be nerfed. Why then, would I want the game to work this way? I think the opposite, but the opposite isn't what the rules say.

For the spell to be balanced, it requires there to be no ambiguity, or very little ambiguity, in favor of balance. Being imbalanced only requires that the imbalanced example be logically presented such that no rules are broken. If it's possible to perform actions like these without breaking the rules, then the rules need to be clarified so that it can't happen. This is the point of what I'm trying to say.
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