Enclave Fleet Roster

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Sgt Muffin
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Sgt Muffin » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:00 am

I could see the Thunder Heads being really large wide ships but the Raptors I can't see them looking like that.
Before the End is the story of an officer during the last two years of the war against the zebras. The story follows his journey through the Battle for Shattered Hoof Ridge, Battle of Stalliongrad and into the unknown.
Image More art, but it is over 200pix high.

Artemiev
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Artemiev » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:24 am

icekatze wrote:hi hi

Now, there's nothing wrong with Kashin's designs, but if you're going to talk about warships on a purely functional perspective, long, narrow, needle like designs are very functional. (they're very functional for spaceships too, missiles aren't designed like that by accident you know.)

The first and foremost concern on any armored vehicle is reducing your target cross-section. Having a flat, disk shaped warship would make you increasingly vulnerable to attacks from the ground. A needle or wedge shape is ideal if you are going to be attacking an enemy head on, as it presents the smallest possible target area, while staggered turret placement allows you to fire all your weapons simultaneously. If you're worried about attacks from the ground, a tower shape would be ideal. (If you're worried about attacks from all directions, a sphere is the most volume to surface area effective shape you'll ever find, which will give you the most internal space for the least amount of surface area that requires armor.)

But I think going with the rule of cool is perfectly acceptable in this situation, so I'm not too worried about having strictly functional designs. This is my third and most recent take on the raptor's design, based on imagery of owls in flight...
Image
P.S. Submarines operate in a three dimensional environment too, but they still use a needle shape.


That's a cool design, reminds me of Warbirds from Star Trek O_o.
And submarines have a needle shape for the same reason boats do: water medium. Air and vacuum doesn't require that shape for adequete speed and acceleration.
I'm finishing up the Thunderhead right now, should be online an hour.

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Sgt Muffin
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Sgt Muffin » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:49 am

You do realize that Air is a good resistance barrier? I know we are a bit off topic, and I do like your art, I just don't think that the design is all that good.
Also the name Raptor makes me think of Claws, long and sharp. Doesn't really go with a big flat ship.
Before the End is the story of an officer during the last two years of the war against the zebras. The story follows his journey through the Battle for Shattered Hoof Ridge, Battle of Stalliongrad and into the unknown.
Image More art, but it is over 200pix high.

Artemiev
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Artemiev » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:57 am

It is, but not nearly as much water. And neither of the big warships of the enclave can reach high enough speed for the needle shape to be necessary. I just like bulky designs =P.
And... come to think of it, it makes me wonder where the word "Raptor" come from in FOE... We don't know about dinosaurs in Equestria :pipshrug:.

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Sgt Muffin
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Sgt Muffin » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:43 am

Raptor was a word for "Bird of Prey" so it fits better then you would think because they are Dragon hunting ships.

Also this:
The Raptor Lenticular struck the Overcast with a rapturous explosion. Whoever was aboard had frontloaded the ship with every bomb on board. The explosion blew out both of the Overcast’s thunderclouds on the struck side and tore a massive hole in the side of the mobile siege platform, the Raptor wedging into the bigger ship like a poisonous dart.

Make it sound like a pointy ship.
Before the End is the story of an officer during the last two years of the war against the zebras. The story follows his journey through the Battle for Shattered Hoof Ridge, Battle of Stalliongrad and into the unknown.
Image More art, but it is over 200pix high.

Artemiev
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Artemiev » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:56 am

Could be only rethorical speaking =P...

Anyways, Thunderhead completed and uploaded, also made slight changes to the Raptor and Eye of the Storm. Finally completed Kashin's stuff =P...

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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Sgt Muffin » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:59 am

You want to make this Raptor:
Image
Just for the hell of it? I noticed that the Thunderhead's look very similar.
Before the End is the story of an officer during the last two years of the war against the zebras. The story follows his journey through the Battle for Shattered Hoof Ridge, Battle of Stalliongrad and into the unknown.
Image More art, but it is over 200pix high.

Artemiev
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Artemiev » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:17 am

Pft... Someday maybe. But Kashin's stuff fatigued me pretty much... And I already rendered two raptor designs XD...

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icekatze
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby icekatze » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:09 pm

hi hi

I never said that speed or acceleration was the deciding factor for a warship to desire a needle shape in air or a vacuum, though air resistance is still a big factor in speed and acceleration, especially since any object that is buoyant is going to have a density roughly equal to the medium it is traveling through. I specifically said the main consideration was target cross-section. A needle shape is an aggressive shape because it implies that the design is intended to be used front first on the offensive.

When you are under fire, you want to present a small target cross-section, not only because it makes you harder to hit, but also because it reduces the surface area that is required to carry your heaviest armor. Especially in a vacuum, reducing the mass of your necessary armor is very important. (because in space, every gram counts)

Another consideration that often gets overlooked is the objects moment of inertia and the compressive strength of the construction material. Usually angular acceleration is going to be less than linear acceleration, especially for ships in a vacuum. Building a long, narrow ship reduces the amount of necessary structural material/bracing mass. (Technically, you would need even less if you put the engines near the front and pulled the entire assembly, because many materials have a better tensile strength than compressive strength, but there are other concerns which make that more difficult, depending on your powerplant. Especially in a vacuum where high energy rockets can irradiate the crew.)

Another reason to have a long needle shape when traversing in three dimensions is because it is easier to achieve radial symmetry when you have a thin design. The further you place components from the axis of thrust, the easier it is for you to drift off course when things get moved around. If its really wide, even little things like people moving from one side of the ship to the other could cause problems in vacuum, and in the atmosphere they could cause listing.

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Kashin
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Re: Enclave Fleet Roster

Postby Kashin » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:14 pm

As it has come under some scrutiny I would like to defend some of my design aspects.

The Raptors (technically M2 Raptors as I removed the massive skylight over the flight deck) were designed for durability, not speed. Its nose armor is nearly three ponies thick (nine feet of nested metal and ceramic armor shells to defect impacts laced with coolant lines to dissipate heat) with a continuous curve for deflection purposes compared to its rear armor which is only a few hooves thick (about a foot and a half). As for its shape, it is a compromise between the needle's small cross section and the sphere's high surface area to volume ratio so it presents a relatively small target nose on (its ideal attack arc).
The gun and shell placement are built for two tactics.
One meant to take advantage of the fact that dragons only have a forward firing arc: They approach a dragon and let their generally faster opponent get the first pass. Once the dragon has overshot the raptor it is attacked with all eight primary weapons while the power armored pegasi use the raptor as a shield to deploy in relative safety. At this point the dragon would need to chose whether to attack the heavily armored nose, the strongest firing arc or take the time to maneuver above or below the raptor.
Two: As a burst of sour grapes the vessel would focus all of its destructive energy in two directions in the event of it, well, exploding. the energy would follow the path of least resistance (the relatively weak rear armor) acting like a shaped charge in the rear and propelling the shell forward. This would serve two purposes. One; it would reduce collateral damage to allies (just make sure the ships aren't facing each other) and provide a last ditch offensive by turning the armored shell into a giant bullet.
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Operation Flankorage.


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